Strange illness

Water Quality, Treatment Advice
DdraigCymru
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:21 pm

Strange illness

Post by DdraigCymru »

Hey there everyone. I'm really new to this website, so if I'mma doin' anything wrong, can someone *please* tell me.

I'm also pretty new to serious pond keeping. I'm only 16, and it's taken me years to get my father to invest in a bigger pond to accomidate some Koi and Sturgeon. Anyways.
I had some 7 koi, pretty run of the mill garden centre fish. Nothing above 14", but never any health problems. Theres also a lot of orf, goldfish, tench and roach in the two ponds. A large filter runs them both, never had any sort of problem with water quality, as we live right out in the country theres never been any need to de-chlorinate or anything like that.
Anyway, I saved up, and bought 2 white sturgeon and 10 Koi. Most of them are sanke, kohaku and Ogons. Just as we were leaving this koi place, (Roots 'N Shoots in Chester) The saleman told us about this fish, he's about 20" and he was going to have to cull him because he only had one pectoral fin. So. I feel like I'm not making sense. But we bought all these fish, and because I'm a bleeding heart, I bought the one finned fish fo a bargain price.
I quarantined the new arrivals for about 2 months, with no problems. So I moved all the fish from one of our ponds to the other, and but the new fish in the vacant one. Everything was good until the water temprature starting to rise. We kept the filter on pretty 24/7, but the waterfall leeks now and again, so water changes are pretty frequent.
Then the big fish just....stopped eating. He'd sit still on the bottom and even if you leant right over the pond and shadowed him, he wouldn't move. I took him out, and in the net and bucket it seemed like he was...falling apart. Lots of scales and skin to be found, but I couldn't find where they came off of him. I put him back into quarantine and he seems to have almost a fungal growth over his head, curling back behind his head. I treated them for that though, and it didn't work.
Then recently, I've noticed nearly all my sankes have this weird mottled colour growing over their heads. They're all still eating, but not enough.

I'm sorry for being so...clueless. But like I said, pretty new to koi -keeping and I'm only 16, don't have enough money for microscopes and bloodtests.
I was thinking Khv, but these fish have been like this for 2 weeks now.
ANY help, please.
-Holly.
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Re: Strange illness

Post by site admin »

Hi,
Welcome to the forum, hope we can help?
First thing you really need is some water test kits for pH, Ammonia and Nitrite.
These test's are important to see if the filter is working correctly.
pH should be between 7.0 and 8.5, Ammonia should be 0.0 and Nitrite below 0.2.
The fungus or mucous that you refer to maybe as a result of high of Ammonia or low pH.
Until you check these 3 parameters it is hard to say what the cause is.

Most problems are caused by bad water quality, leading to poor health of the fish.
The size of the filter is also important, if you have added too many fish or over feeding can also cause bad water quality, because the filter cannot process the waste efficiently.

hope it helps
Dave.
DdraigCymru
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Strange illness

Post by DdraigCymru »

Well, I'll try and get my Dad to go for a testing kit, but I'm not sure he'll go for it.
An update on the orginal ill fish..he's been "pine-coning" all day today. Not eating at all.
Does anyone know the average time it takes KHV to kill fish? All the symptoms, in my opinion, seem to be pointing to it. Pretty worried.
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Re: Strange illness

Post by site admin »

Hi,
What temperature is the water?
What makes you think it is KHV?

Dave.
DdraigCymru
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Strange illness

Post by DdraigCymru »

Hey.
Umm, I don't know what temp the waters is at right now, but this whole disease started when we had some sun and the ponds starting to heat up.

I really hope it's not Khv. Well. Really hope isn't even a strong enough word. And I've been denying it all I can. But..the reason I think it is, well, lots of reasons,

-It began as the water tempratures starting to rise.
-A strange mottled mucus has grown over their heads.
-Everytime we catch one to move it to quarantine or check it, they seem to fall apart, bits of scaes and fins are always present.
-The biggest (and illest) Has began to "pinecone", Keeping his mouth out of the water and seeming to desperate for aer, although he's alone in a 600 gallon cattle trough, with an aeriator and Khv is known for destroying gills.

When we bought these fish from the dealer, the biggest one only had 1 pectoral fin, and we were told it had become damaged when being imported. We got him for a bargain price. I'mma going to go back to where we got it from and see if they have any fish left.

God, I'm just so regretting buying them :L Koi keeping is such an unusual hobby, other than me I don't know anyone my age who does. This is just proving to my father that it's a waste of time. Heh. Soooooo. Yep. If anyone's had any experience with this? Help. Please. D;
Again, I'm sooo sorry I don't know more, So sorry I'm rather clueless. But live and learn I guess.
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Re: Strange illness

Post by site admin »

Hi,
The Koi in question.
Are the eyes sunken?
Are the gills red?
How long has the Koi been like this?

I still think it may be a bad bacterial infection.

If this does prove to be KHV, this is a Notifiable Disease that needs to be reported to DEFRA, also they will need to know where you bought them from.
I hope not because all the other fish in your pond will have to be culled and the pond disinfected.
DdraigCymru
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Strange illness

Post by DdraigCymru »

Hey,
Yeah, I know it's a notifiable disease, we own a Dairy farm and dad has friends who work for DEFRA.
It's eyes aren't sunken, no.
There a little pinkness and a patch of red just behind the gills, other than that, nope.
If it is a bad bacterial infection, how can I treat it? We've tried bacterial and parasite medications before and they've failed to work.
He's only just started gasping, but it started with him not eating and sitting on the bottom. That was maybe...just under two weeks ago.
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Re: Strange illness

Post by site admin »

Hi,
I do not think it is KHV,
You need to get your water parameters checked ASAP, this is important.

You can try giving the Koi a salt bath.
only ever use pure dried vacuum salt (PDV) Not table.
add 3 oz per gallon
dissolve the salt first before adding the koi
add a air stone for 5mins
use a air pump to add the air.
It might roll over in the salt, if so remove back to the pond and try again later.
However it might just finish the Koi off, depending on how far gone it is.
DdraigCymru
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Re: Strange illness

Post by DdraigCymru »

Alright. I'll give it a try tomorrow and I'll update with what happens.
Thank you so much for all your help! ;P
I'm pretty glad I discovered this website. Had no idea there were actually other people in north Wales with this hobby! Proper chuffed I've found ya'll :D
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Re: Strange illness

Post by site admin »

Hope it goes OK for you.
Plenty of people in North Wales with koi.
keep us updated.
And a little tip, that you might have already guessed, don't buy from them again.
Plenty of safer places to buy from.

Dave.
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